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Season 3 Episode 42

Posted by tinmanfrisbie on June 18th, 2011

We discuss the DC re-launch titles and what we're gonna pick up. Also (BE FOREWARNED!) we discuss the cacophony of complaints about the re-launch and more specifically the costume change of Superman. I want to let anyone know that listens to this podcast if you are really upset about the re-launch, you should maybe not listen to this because we go on a rant (Isaac more than anyone) about why we feel people are taking this too seriously and need to relax. We hope you enjoy it. We did!

00:0000:00

  • Sabino

    Issac, your rant was epic! Some people just take things to personally, but like you guys said, these people are most likely trolls.

    I am excited for the relaunch. Hopefully, this will put DC ahead of MarveI. Also, I don’t know if this is possible, but I hope Superman once again becomes DC’s flagship character. Not that I don’t like Batman, but Superman is the best :) Anyway, I believe one of the books that has the most potential is Aquaman. Poor dude, it is time for him to be taken seriously.

    Jun 18, 2011 at 7:48 pm
  • tinmanfrisbie

    Thanks, Sabino! I’m just tired of the whining. They should be horse whipped ;) . And we’re really glad, too about Aquaman.

    Jun 18, 2011 at 10:14 pm
  • David

    I enjoyed your podcast, this is the first of these I’ve heard. While I also have A LOT of problems with this relaunch,especially what MIGHT be happening with Superman (which the costume and the marriage are the least of my worries for September), I am willing to give it a shot, and I am urging my fellow doubters to also give it a shot. You are right, we really don’t know. As long as he’s still Clark Kent his basic origin is the same (krypton,Kents,Smallville,Metropolis, Daily Planet) the basic supporting cast (Lois, Jimmy, Perry, Ma Kent, Luthor) and he has the classic powers and a variation of his classic suit, AND is the same moral, good guy we have known all this time, then the continuity and marital status are pretty unimportant.

    However, where I think a lot of us reasonable critics of this are coming from in terms of apprehention for this, is how DC and Warners has handled Superman for the past decade.

    This is a studio who thought that the best way to bring Superman back to the big screen in 2006 was a half baked remake of the original Richard Donner film,only this time with a ‘love child’ for Superman and Lois Lane. This is also the same comic book company that thought that retelling his origin story four times in 10 years, taking him out of his own books for years at a time to feature b list characters, and when he IS in his books, he’s either the antagonist in his own story (FOR TOMORROW) or goes on a spirit walk across America (GROUNDED),are stories fans want to read. The sales seem to indicate that’s not the case, and they keep doing it. Most of us just want to see good,traditional Superman stories that take advantage of the great cast of characters and villains he has, and what a great character his is, without trying to do something “shocking” and “bold” because creators want to sevrice themselves and their ego and not the character. We just want to see Superman being Superman. We haven’t gotten that, and NOW they are doing ANOTHER status quo and creative change? Really?

    Since Jeph Loeb and Joe Kelly left the Superman books back in 2003,they have lacked any real direction for long periods of time. You have had fleeting moments of greatness, but it’s always tempered by bad editing, scheduling and lack of creative coheisiveness. I am heartened we are getting the creators we are on Superman come September, but my fear is that if they don’t pull in massive numbers beyond the first two or three issues, they will be gone in a year like almost every creative team since 03, and we will be back in the same mess we are now, just a different number on the covers and a costume without the red trunks.A bit like rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

    I hope for the best, but I just have little faith the current people in charge at DC when it comes to SUPERMAN. That doesn’t make me a troll. That makes me pragmatic.

    Sorry for the rant! :)

    Jun 19, 2011 at 7:39 pm
  • tinmanfrisbie

    David, Your rant was 10 times more epic than mine! Your words were articulate and you make an excellent argument. I feel the same way about them botching Superman over the years. I am hesitant as well but ultimately trusting, I suppose. My main complaint is with people that I feel are taking it to the extreme. If it’s bad I will say so after I read it. Kudos for your comments, my friend!

    Jun 19, 2011 at 9:17 pm
  • David

    Thank you. If you are intrested, I’ve been posting regularly on the DC Message Boards as Manofsteel1979. I’m pretty much on the Superman boards only, so feel free, any of you, to drop me a line and say hello there when I go on one of my nerd rage rants. ;)

    Jun 19, 2011 at 9:25 pm
  • BBally

    You guys made a lot of great points about the whole Relaunch hype and how people are overreacting. However as much as I do like Smallville, Kurt Busiek’s entire run with the character is a million times better than the all 10 seasons of Smallville.

    Jun 20, 2011 at 12:55 am
  • Anabel

    We interrupt this email for an important message…Friends (although I am not on Facebook), Romans (and people of all ethnicities) and countrymen (pop, alternative, classic rock, rock, folk, electronica, jazz, hip hop, dance, polka, movie soundtrack, etc…) Now is the summer (season of your location on this blue marble) of our discontent…If you are a true blue Superman Fan show your true colours…wear your red undies over your jeans (or plaid polyester cargo pants) the next time you go outside. Together we will stop the madness! Yes, wear your best, (clean) scarlet underoos, thongs, tighty whities, french cuts or boxers to show your soldarity with tradition! Please join your compatriots Isaac and Adam who will be first out the door tomorrow morning with their skivies proudly on the outside… Now back to our regular email.

    Hi Guys, Great podcast as usual, thanks for covering the current “underwear-gate” that has the masses enraged. Myself, I do prefer the classic look but like you said I’ll take a naked Superman anyday over no Superman. Heck, not only would I buy that comic I would definitely watch the movie!

    So, again, thanks!

    Jun 20, 2011 at 8:41 pm
  • tinmanfrisbie

    @David. If I ever go onto a forum and sign up I’ll try and look you up, my friend. I just like reading the posts more than anything. @BBally. Thanks for your comments! Kurt Busiek was good, I’ll agree. I just can’t agree that he was better than the entirety of Smallville. Pound for pound perhaps. Take care and thanks for posting! @Anabel. Always a pleasure to see your comments Anabel! You’ve almost inspired me to wear red underwear over my pants one of these days!

    Jun 20, 2011 at 11:40 pm
  • Adam B

    David Your rant was fantastic. I was applauding while reading it. Anabel, that was indeed inspiring but for now my underwear will remain on the inside! As for your naked Superman comments, calm yourself my dear friend. Let’s keep it clean. After all this is a family show…lol :)

    Jun 21, 2011 at 1:08 am
  • Andy

    Hi, informative Weblog, should be developed! I have bookmarked for future reference! All the best

    Jun 21, 2011 at 5:12 am
  • tinmanfrisbie

    is Andy spam? Seems like it. Do you need to wire money to my bank account and then give me a small portion of the proceeds?

    Jun 21, 2011 at 10:48 pm
  • Lane Chang

    this is a great post thanks a lot for sharing ive heard some interesting varied views on this lately

    Jun 23, 2011 at 7:32 am
  • Mark

    Just finished listening to this pod cast. While I have not been a longtime listener, I have come to enjoy them. That is why I was surprised by your so called “rational” rant about DC reboot rants. What you would call “rational” I would call snarky and petulant.

    Someone complains about a costume change and they are declared by you to be not a Superman fan?

    The assertion that this costume change is “minor” and comparable to other costume changes from the past is nonsense.

    How many times since 1960 has Superman gone through a costume change? (Superman Blue doesn’t count)

    For the past 50 years the \S/ grows and shrinks, different artists draw the cape a little different; but the fundamental design (including briefs) has been unchanged.

    While I agree that the new costume is not a huge departure it is still a significant redesign. (A bad one at that) I would argue a more significant visual change that the early shield redesigns.

    The core fan complaint hinges on this being

    a. Change for change sake

    b. His suit hasn’t changed nearly as much as you pretend

    c. A poorly executed redesign

    Beauty is in the eye of the beholder so perhaps you find the new costume visually appealing; but lets not pretend that because YOU like it that the rest of us are way out of line in crying foul. Also lets not pretend that because you choose to be a DC apologist that YOUR voices are the only reasonable ones in the room.

    I would lastly like to point out that you trotted out the nice straw man argument “But Superman really needs good stories so the costume is irrelevant”

    Who has argued that Superman couldn’t use some better stories? Where is it written that a new story line demands a new costume?

    The visual elements AND the story elements are equally important. I would expect a “real” Superman fan to know this.

    I will keep listening for the time being, I hope your pod cast improves.

    BTW If you really wanted to be fair over this issue I suspect it wouldn’t be hard to find a reasonable and articulate fan who hates the new suit.

    Jun 29, 2011 at 3:08 pm
  • tinmanfrisbie

    Mark, thanks for your comments! We are glad to hear someone that disagrees like you do. Would you be willing to come onto the podcast? I honestly don’t know anyone that really hates it that we could have had on the podcast. And I’m not making that up. If you listen closely to the podcast we emphasize that the rant was for fans that have pre-decided that they won’t read Superman based solely on the costume change. I even said if you hate it, fine. I said those people can provide sound arguments why they don’t like it and I’m fine with that. And I am. It’s the fans that say things like they refuse to read it anymore. Or Superman is worthless now. And I have read those. Seriously. You are rational and are providing a fair and balanced argument why you don’t like it. Which is to be commended. As far as a strawman argument, I don’t believe it is. I was merely stating that I don’t think the costume is as important as what everyone is making it out to be. I want good stories. Does that mean the costume needs to be changed? Not necessarily. But as long as the costume doesn’t look bad and I don’t think it does, then I think if they want to revamp his stories and his costume I’m fine with that. I hope you keep listening to our podcast, we enjoy doing it and enjoy the dialogue we have with the fans, like you. Hopefully you will continue to enjoy the podcast and look past the one podcast where you and the podcast disagree. Hope all is well with you and let me know if you’d like to come on, we’d love to revisit the topic so fans can hear the other side of the coin. Take care!

    Jun 29, 2011 at 3:43 pm
  • Mark

    @tinmanfrisbie

    I will certainly continue to listen. I suppose that your comments generally directed towards the hysterical fan seemed to take on a tone that I had difficulty with.

    Unfortunately upon re-reading my own post it contained much the same tone that I originally objected to.

    For the record I think DC did need to shake things up a bit; but I remain vehemently opposed to this particular wardrobe change for the man of steel. It seems a move that is well intentioned and wrong headed.

    My greatest concern is, that I am skeptical that Didio et al actually understand why sales are dipping and that this maneuver is one of desperation rather than a well conceived plan to recapture lost readers and usher in new readership.

    Conversely Marvel’s move to bundle stories and republish them on the newsstand seems pretty savvy. (No, I am not a Marvel guy)

    In closing, if you did revisit the topic on a future episode, I would be happy to participate.

    Regards,

    Jun 29, 2011 at 8:18 pm
  • Bob Marshall

    Great podcast and I agree 100% with everything you said. The renumbering idea is a genius idea by DC as it will be easier for new fans to get into the characters. Also you will have people who are excited that they can start collecting a series be it Superman, Batman, JLA etc from number 1. Also on the Superman costume I love it, its top notch, if they use it in the new movie then I’d be fine with it. Also on the people complaining about Supermans costume they need to go back to the original and see how different it is from then anyway. Its about having great stories and I just read Final Crisis (didn’t have a clue what was going on in it) and after that i’m glad they restarting. Really looking forward to these new books.

    A+ podcast

    Jul 2, 2011 at 10:26 am
  • tinmanfrisbie

    @Bob. Thanks Bob. We appreciate your comments are are waaaaay pumped for what is to come! Hopefully they do something good with all these changes. But just glad they are changing things, cause we think they need it.

    Jul 6, 2011 at 1:28 am
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    Jul 18, 2011 at 9:26 pm